Untitled - March 17, 2025
00:00:00 Unknown: Hi, I'm Denise, a mom, a wife, a business owner, a friend, a sister, a recovering perfectionist, and host of the Working Moms Redefined podcast, Thank you for being here. Let's join together in community as we break free from the mom guilt that so many of us feel and thrive in our fulfilling careers and raising good kids. Welcome, welcome, and thank you so much for spending some of your time with us here at the Working Moms Redefined Podcast, where we Truly get to pour into you and provide validations and thoughts and different perspectives to empower you or the one that you love as a working mom to really, truly break free from that mom guilt that. They might be feeling so that you can raise good kids and thrive in your career. It is an absolute pleasure for me to get to have this Beautiful woman with us today. If you're on our YouTube channel, you're able to see said beauty. If not, go visit because Sarah Semenik is with us, a licensed marriage and family therapist and co-owner of deeper roots counseling. She is not going to be one to toot her own horn too much. And so I need to do that honor of explaining how she loves Getting to spend time, especially with women who might be struggling with anxiety, depression, traumatic experiences, all the way from grief and self-esteem and codependency. Anybody else raising their hand right there? She has twenty years of ministry experience, and when you look at her, you're like, how is that possible, right? twenty years, and she has a true passion for working with women, pastoral leaders, and families. Not only that, she comes alongside all of her clients to truly help them achieve such a mental and emotional intelligence, a spiritual freedom. One of my favorite things about her is that she realizes that she is a river. She gives with what comes to her. And that comes, of course, with experience, but a very vast education and certification list as well, right? She has counseling degrees, master's degrees, NET practitioner certificates. Guys, this NET therapy I learned about this less than six months ago at the time of this recording and mind blown, mind blown. There, uh, is a level one training certificate that she has as well in the Gottman method couples therapy and a certified enrich facilitator. When we get to introduce people like Sarah Semenik, my hands get sweaty because the passion, the love that you will soon get to experience from Sarah is unlike any other. How do I know this? Because I get to call her my therapist as well. We are going to discuss not only examples from our lives, but the thought of that talking through your thoughts and getting rid of emotions and feelings. That our bodies actually hold on to and I didn't know that that was a thing I knew I wanted to reach. Her and learn all about it. And it's God's divine intervention when you go into a place and you're like, oh yeah, that's a thing. You, you are right. Let me help you. It's such a gift. And so this gift, I can't wait to bestow upon all of you as I get to introduce you to Sarah Seminic. Sarah, welcome. Thank you. I'm so happy to have like, just you guys are so sweet. Like all the things are so nice. And I'm like, I don't, I don't, that's so all too much. It's too much. Um, but I just really appreciate you inviting me to be on the podcast with you today. She's rocking new bangs guys as well. How are we feeling? Are we loving the bangs? We're trying to love the bangs. It's fun. It's like a whole new identity. And then I'll cut them off again because it's what I do. Transitions and seasons and all sorts of good things which show resiliency. But Sarah, you have made such a difference in lives, and I can say that because you won't, and that's okay. I think you understand your true impact, but I want to know, and so all of our listeners as well, where does your passion come from to Help people, specifically women, in the ways that you get to do so. For sure. That's a really good question. Um, so I would say I've always been a helper, like always wanted to help other people. I've always felt the gift of empathy towards other people. Was always that friend that everybody would bring their problems to. And I'm like, it just felt good. It felt natural. And so I think from the time that I was little, I just wanted to help other people. Um, in high school, I thought it was supposed to be in like, Physical medicine or something like that and then the more I was just like that's just not where I'm supposed to go. Um, yeah, it just kind of shifted into helping. I don't know in counseling like I really loved what my high school counselor did. And just being able to meet with her and be mentored by her. And I'm like, you saw me like she was one of the first females in my life. I felt like, like you see me and like, you're helping me. And you're, I don't know, she just made space for me. And I was like, I'm really inspired by that. And so that's kind of when I changed my trajectory from, you know, physical medicine to more emotional stuff. To be a counselor and so I went and did an undergrad and Christian counseling and then um kind of again it's it's. It's a long story that I don't want to bore everybody with, but about twenty plus years later after that undergrad is actually when I went back to get my masters. Um, I took a hiatus and did pastoral ministry. Mainly with children, um, and realize I'm like, oh, this is not my lane. Like, I love kids and this is not my lane. But I would find that, like, I think part of it, part of my passion for women is I, I felt like a woman who was lost. I didn't know who I was. And it's like, who was out there to help guide me? You know, um, I was a stay at home mom for a while after, um, I worked full time. For a while and then I went back as a working mom. I've kind of done it all. I've kind of, I feel like I've done every bit of. What women can do, um, all at different times. But I think for me being able to do what I do now is I see women and I, because I've been in all kind of facets of life, whether I'm a stay at home mom, whether I'm a working mom, whether I'm just a working woman. Um, like they're all women need a place to be seen. And to be able to journey with women to help them become their best version of themselves, I think is really what I needed. And there, you know, I found it in different facets in different ways, but I think. God kind of really just brought it around to where like, hey, I want you to do this. You have the capability of doing this. This is how I designed you. Um, and so being able to step into that in this season of my life feels just like I'm locked in. This is my lane. And you drive in that lane so very well with the addition of applying real life Into a godly conversation, and I so appreciate that about you. One of our first meetings, and this was something that I was newly exposed to. She asked what Enneagram I was. And for those who might not be familiar, Sarah, can you explain the Enneagram personality assessment and how you utilize it really to walk through life with your clients? Okay. I know we are limited in time, but for those who are at Enneagram, Ennea just means nine. And so it's a nine personality type, um, kind of thing, uh, assessment where you go and you take a test and then You sit with an Enneagram coach like me and you help get typed. You try to figure out your core type. And then through that, basically what that shows me when I have my clients do an Enneagram assessment, it shows me their motivations. When, like, why they do what they do. Not just, oh, I'm introverted, I'm extroverted, I'm, you know, a pioneer, or I'm a nurturer, or I'm this or that, or I'm INFP, or whatever, you know. Like, it actually helps me To know the motivations as to why you do what you do. Because each personality type is driven by core fears, core desires, core weaknesses, and core longings. And so once I kind of know, uh, what lens you look through, um, I would say each, if I had a different pair of sunglasses, different colors, Of Enneagram types like, you know, ones look through a blue lens, you know, nines look through a purple lens, you know, sixes look through an orange lens. But what that means is everybody views the world in a different way. They're all trying to Their behaviors may look the same, but their motivations are different and it depends on what lens you look through. And so, um, I use that as a way to understand my clients better because if I understand why you do what you do, um, and the reason like with those nine personality types, it really is just a rich tool for them to be able to understand themselves. Um, to know the good, bad, ugly, and awesome because we all kind of need to know that it brings self-awareness. Um, but it also helps me see what lens they're looking through. Knowledge is power. I have to ask, what's your Enneagram? I am a nine wing one. Nine wing one. So I am a three and I'm not sure if I'm a wing four or a two. It's up for debate because this is still new and I have different tendencies. But once she gave that knowledge of like, oh, I am an achiever, and I do show up in different ways in different scenarios. It was so eye-opening because, oh my gosh, what does make authentic, right? And so you ask really great questions with knowledge and science-backed. And then that leads to, we don't always talk about mental health and therapy, especially in communities that are like ours here. Right, it's more of a rural community compared to that of an urban. But statistics, and you can correct me or add these to it, it shows between 20-25% of women are the ones that actually receive some sort of Of mental health treatment or counseling or whatever you want to label it as compared to 18% of men. Overall, that number, both women and men, that seems low. Yeah. What? Why is it because there's still that taboo? I mean, we were raised, I mean, my parents didn't talk about it. I remember the first time that I went to them and said, hey, my husband and I are going to marriage counseling. They're like, What's wrong with you, right? Exactly. What's wrong? Yeah. And I think there, to some level, there is that taboo still out there. Um, you know, The world is still shifting to be okay, as long as tick tock said it was okay to be in therapy, you see a growing number of influencers who are talking about their therapist and how they're going. And so I think the the generations behind our parents. Are coming to normalize it, which makes a huge difference. Um, a couple of reasons why I think women might be more in therapy is because there's more women therapists, in my opinion, when I look at who's doing the work. Um, so again, I can, I can probably get in trouble with a lot of the things about what males might say about women and why they are crazy and need to go to therapy. But, um, I think sometimes the feminine, uh, person is more willing to talk about emotions and if that's the taboo of what's going on in therapy. A lot of men aren't going to be like, oh yeah, sign me up for that. You know what I'm saying? Um, but also less men, less male therapists, you know, so I think I do see a growing number of male therapists, which is good. And I do see. As long as we continue to have a positive, um, conversation about balance that everybody is masculine and feminine, everybody to live the best version of us. Needs to bring both forth like for women like we are feminine yet. There's masculine in our strength and in our warrior ness of like our achievement, like all of those things are good for us to bring out. It's good for men to achieve and be powerful, but it's also good for them to be nurturing and growing and more attuned to themselves emotionally because we all need to be emotionally mature and I think we do lack that a lot. What would you say to someone if they are fearful about taking that next step to go see a therapist or really even identify that okay now is the time. For sure. One, it's maybe finding somebody that, you know, that's had a good experience. Talk to them about it. What's it even like, you know, what do you talk about with your therapist, if they're willing to share some of that? You know, what is that person like? What do you look for in a therapist? Because again, the biggest thing, um, it's personality connection, you know, like if you're not Trust feeling trust with your therapist. You're not feeling warm and safe in that environment. It's not going to be a good fit, you know? So it's, um, it's looking to find a, why are you going to, why do you want to go to therapy? What do you feel like you need to, to. To accomplish in that because here's the deal. A lot of people are resilient, you know, and they can, they have the tools they need. Some people don't have the tools they need. So again, it's like. Talk to somebody who's had a good experience and what they learned, you know, what were they looking for. Find some trusted individuals in your community of who are the highly respected people that have had good experiences. If they don't know somebody, like, who can they recommend? You know, it's, it's really figuring out what it is that you're wanting in therapy and then being able to find somebody who can probably help you do that, finding a good match. And that can be a process. And that's okay. Yes, it is. And it makes me, again, because people find me and they're like, yeah, you're not my fit. And I'm like, well, let me help you find your fit if I can, if that's helpful, you know? And so sometimes people are like, I've tried this person. I've tried this person. I've tried this person. This person's on a waiting list. It takes time, you know, but I always trust the process that when people end up on my couch, it's the right time, you know, that they're ready for it, that they needed to go through some of that other stuff to find out what they really wanted. The student is ready to be taught at that point. What would you say to working moms specifically as to why you think it's important to invest into yourself through therapy like this? Yeah. Again, if you've had, if you're showing up and you're struggling and you're not able to be who you want to be, um, it's good for you to take time for yourself to figure out. How, how to kind of overcome that to over to understand your history, like your family patterns and, um, different things like that, that could be blocking you. Like it's, it's, you are not going to be able to keep going on a short fuse. You know what I'm saying? And so, um, I would say it's like for all moms too, like for all people, again, it can, I know we're talking to working moms here because it's really like you are doing so much. I'm a working mom. You know what I'm saying? Like I have three boys at home and they're teenagers who, you know, like I have to make sure that I'm regularly taking care of myself doing like what I say my own work. And whether that's doing my own work on my own, whether it's calling my therapist and making sure I have regular coaching sessions with them, um, just a safe place for an objective person to come in. Because sometimes we will go to our friends or sometimes we'll go to our family and they're honestly going to tell you what you want to hear. Okay. And so it can be real dangerous sometimes where it's like you're just getting fed. Oh yeah, that person, you, you don't need to talk to them. It's like that may not be helpful in the, in the moment you may need an objective person to really help you look at yourself. And how you're showing up in those environments. And that's where I think therapy really does. Um, it sets people apart in the sense of like, I'm not a friend. I'm not a family member. I'm an objective person. That, you know, whatever you bring, I, you just get to be you, you get to be honest to you, and I get to help you look at laying all that stuff out on the table to see how you want to take your next steps and how I can encourage and support you in that. But being honest and reflecting, I always talk about a mirror in my office that sometimes you need to see a mirror and see the hard things about yourself in order to make those changes. And you do that in a kind way. You provide that validation that if I'm a woman wanting to go talk to a friend to say, oh, yeah, you made the right decision. I know my intent when I went there. I did that knowing that they were going to Pump me up and say exactly what I needed them to say. I find myself in my phone jotting down, okay, I gotta, I gotta talk to Sarah about this because I realized that I need a sounding board and the mirror To best show up in both work and at home. And that's hard, right? It's hard because also you're putting yourself in a position of being uncomfortable. How do you help people realize that you're going to have such a weight lifted that it's worth it? What would you say? How do you work through that? Yeah. Um, I think when. It's kind of like, uh, how to, how to describe this looking at yourself and looking at the parts of yourself that you don't like. Right. The things that we all know they're there, whether we're it's pride, whether it's, um, oh gosh, what else? Let's see. Um, like we all have our stuff, okay? And so when I have to look at I'm being a jerk, I'm being critical, I'm being this, I'm being that, I'm being unfair, um, I'm just naming some of my stuff. Um, when I was going to say, I'll get that list out for me. Um, when I'm showing up and I'm just not the mom I want to be, or I am not the therapist I want to be, or the wife I want to be, I have to look at. Myself in the mirror. Okay. If I'm just going to blame my kids for everything, if I'm going to blame my husband for everything or all my ridiculous clients or body, you know, if I start to look outside of myself to blame everybody else. I can't control any of that because those are people and things that I cannot control. The only thing I can control is me. And to understand in all of us that we would all love to believe that we are good. I am good. I'm awesome. I don't do anything wrong. I want to see a version of myself. That's the best version. Right. And oftentimes that's what we hear from our friends. Oh, you're great girl. You're in the right. Like they acted that like. And so we get this, I'm good, I'm the right one, and we tend to avoid all of the other bad stuff that I always say we kind of put back here. I'm like, I'll just put it in my backpack. That pride, that judgment, that criticism. Um, that inability to say that I'm wrong, but that's, that's still part of me. And if I don't look at that, I can't do anything about it. Therefore, part of what I say, like. I have to be able to control myself so that I can become the best version of myself. Part of that is bringing out, and I love the Enneagram in this, it brings out the good, the bad, the ugly, and the awesome. For me to be able to look in the mirror And say, yeah, I disassociate. I completely check out in my unhealth. Um, I don't show up to life well. And, um, then I wake up and all of a sudden I'm frantic because I have ignored that thing for like a month and now it's in my face. If I don't look at that, I can't know that about myself. I can't do anything different. Right. So I always talk about like when we step into therapy. We are taking, we're trying to gain awareness of ourselves so we can take ownership of these things, take responsibility for what I can control. That's what I can change in my life is how I show up. Does that make sense of what I'm saying? Absolutely, and I want to give you credit because how often, listeners, do we get the opportunity to see therapists as real live people? Not always does that happen and I think it's important I know from personal experience to be able to identify that because they realize you realize that. They have areas of opportunity as well. And so for you to be able to share those things honestly provides your clients and listeners an opportunity to be like, it's okay. And then once you know it's your choice whether or not to do something about it. I think about the way I was raised. I have a really strong work ethic. I've been telling myself that my entire life. And then I find out that really as an Enneagram three and as an achiever, I do that because Ultimately, I don't necessarily feel like I'm good enough in some areas. And so then I'm going to be like, okay, I'm going to stuff this, I'm going to put it in my backpack, as you said, and then I'm going to go do more and I'm going to go create more and I'm going to go get more external validation because that makes me feel good enough. As I stored in the backpack and you reach that goal, then the goal is not quite as sweet because I really didn't do the work on the journey. And one of the questions that Sarah had posed to me in the very beginning is what makes you authentically you? I pause there for a reason because I'm hoping that you are thinking through, oh, what does that mean for me? And so then as I did jotting down thoughts and adjectives and because I wanted to come back with a plan and look like I was awesome because I just want to impress my therapist and I did the work. And then I was like, I don't know. I'm doubting myself in every area because then it was at that point in time where I learned that I adapt or pre, can I say past tense? Maybe I'll say past tense. I adapted. To the situation to best fit what others or what I thought it needed. And so really the hard problem in answering that question was because I'd really never given myself permission to do so. So as you're thinking through that, and maybe you didn't even hear what I just said because you're still stuck on what makes me authentically me. It's okay to identify that and get that stuff out of the backpack, even though it might be kind of hard. One way that you work with clients, Sarah, to be able to do that is through this thing called NET therapy. I share this with friends and I'm thinking you guys have no idea what's coming. You have no idea. So from a very fresh perspective, can you kind of provide a synopsis as to what in ET therapy, not to be confused with ENT. Ear, nose, tonsils, depending if you're a working mom with sick kids. What does NET therapy do? How does it help? What does it entail? Okay. Uh, again, we have a very short episode here, so I'll try to keep it brief. Um, N-E-T is short for neuroemotional technique. Okay. At its basic level, it is a mind body stress tool. Um, we all have fight or flight responses, reactions that we deal with all the time. We get triggered and boom, I I'm feeling I'm reacting this way. I'm feeling. My panic is happening or whatever the case may be. Like I got a text message from somebody earlier and all of a sudden was whoosh, you know, and I was like, oh, you know, like I have a response. Like, and that is what we call a neuro emotional complex. There is some kind of something, stress, Response basically kind of stuck in my body that I keep going on a hamster wheel. Okay, so NET what it does is it helps us through manual muscle testing, which is just a very common practice with chiropractors and naturopath doctors and things like that. Uh, a way to test your body, whether it's strength or weakness. And I basically kind of push up and down on your arm. Um, basically we're asking the body like, what is going on? Where is this stress? What's it about? Um, Um, and The Body, because it keeps the score, if you've never read The Body Keeps the Score, it's a fascinating read. But, um, Our bodies are created to kind of hold on to those responses. So it's like a survival technique, you know, like some of those things are really important. When my mom taught me to look both ways before crossing the street, I want to remember that kind of response. Okay, yes, fear, whoosh, you know. I'm going to teach my kids that it's an evolutionary thing. You know, we're teaching safety in that, but it also plays in the same role when we have trauma triggers and different things like that. Come at us. Um, we get attacked by something, you know, we get talked about who, you know, we end up, you know, stumbling on stage in front of our whole senior class or something like those things stick with us. Right. And we don't necessarily want them to stick with us. Particularly if we've been betrayed or if we've had, you know, we've been fired or things like that. Like, I don't want to keep living out of that kind of stress response. So when people come to me. Um, I do talk therapy, but I also do what we call like body work. And so by using NET, we can help kind of relieve The, the body of those stress responses by going through one by one, we identify emotions, um, and clear them out. Um, it can even go back to like original event. The body is very, uh, it remembers everything. It's so mind blowing. Um, I had this practice, uh, I had this, um, therapy, uh, done to me, part of my healing journey. I learned about it back in the 2015. So I guess we're almost coming up on ten years of being exposed to. Any T having it be a part of my own journey. And I was so moved by just the difference in my own body. My stress levels came down. My anxiety came down. I'm pretty sure I was able to save my gallbladder because I had stored so many emotions in there. Um, I was just angry all the time and I didn't realize it. Clearing out a lot of that stress in my body moved me to like, I need to go get certified in this and I need to become a licensed therapist so that I can do this with people. Cause I really felt moved. That talk therapy isn't very, very important, but yet if we ignore the other parts of the brain where all of these trauma things are stored or all these emotional responses are stored, um, I think we're missing out on a big piece, you know. Um, Grey's Anatomy, if anybody wants to watch that, you can always see they do NET, they do an episode, uh, where Dr. Owen Hunt does NET, uh, with a professional on there. Um, it's really cool. So if you ever just want to see it done, you can always go look up the Grey's Anatomy NET episode. I can't remember. I should just memorize what season and what episode, but you can always go look at an actual, um, this like depiction of it. So. I probably three, five years ago would have thought, what is this? What is this? This is magic. This is hoopla. Like what, what are we even doing? Until you see it. And so Sarah gave a great synopsis from the medical side, right? What does that look like? What does that feel like? And so I will give my best Experience. There are two that really stick out to me. And Sarah's smiling if you're unable to see because it's just like, I'll never forget. I remember how big my jaw dropped. I was just like. What, how did you, how did you do that? I didn't even know that, right? So I think about, I had been going to a massage therapist and she also is into this stuff. And I am just like new to all of this and I'm thinking, oh my gosh, this is right. The student is ready to be taught whether I really knew it or not. And so we had talked about some red backstabs. Basically, this massage therapist had said, And I was like, I don't love this. Right. And so I take this to Sarah and she was like super jazz. She like, let's get some of those gone to the point where we identified, you know, the abandonment that I had felt because of others. And then I, she's like, now go back to your massage therapist and you can actually see it. So she holds your arm. I always hold mine the wrong way. So she has to flip it over for me. And then you push it down and she tries to push it down. And then if you can see that, that's visibly okay. You believe that statement. And so then she finds the organ. Guys, this is so personal. I'm going to share it anyway because I shared this with Sarah too. At one point, I was holding some sort of emotion in my colon. Do you remember this? Yeah. And so then I tell her, I'm like, I was on the toilet for two hours that night. And she's like, you were getting rid of all the emotion. And I said, I believe you body was ridding it. Right. And so I went back to this massage therapist and the next time a month later, I said, hey, can you like, what do you see? I kept it very vague because I didn't want to give her any information. And she's like, oh, well, previously I saw three and there's only one now. And of course, Sarah was like, what a win. And so then Sarah did a nice job of challenging me. You know, I don't know if that third backstab that you have your body is showing is put on by someone else. What if you are self-inflicting that? And it was such a good piece to be like, don't blame or don't think that it's only external. Some of our own work is our responsibility. And you were able to work through that, but had any teen therapy not happened and let's apply it, apply a really quick one. And I would not share this, share this. If I did not get permission from my mom, I have had a really hard time forgiving myself. And we worked through that within ET therapy to find the roots. And talking through situations, you would challenge me and like, so where do you think you had a hard time? Or was there an incident in which you couldn't forgive yourself? And I mean, let's be honest, right? Working moms, mom guilt, it goes hand in hand. Like, where do I start? It's hard to back it to the very first. And so with this type of therapy, she is able to find and help you after She's asked all of the right questions to find the age and so. I'm thirty-four and we worked backwards and I didn't know what we were really doing at the time until she got to ten And I was like, are we just counting down for excitement? Like, what are we doing at this point? Right? And so she counts from ten down to five, four, three, two, one. And I'm thinking, what? And then it clicked when you said mother. Third trimester, second trimester, first trimester. And my arm is still holding strong because remember, it isn't until it drops is when that is true. And then Sarah said at conception or before conception and my arm dropped and my jaw followed suit. I was having a hard time forgiving myself because my mom didn't forgive hers when she had miscarriages. It was, I still get chills, not only because, wow, how insightful and grace-giving is that allowing me to be towards my mom. And on the other side, like, it's not my fault! Thank God! Right? Not necessarily true, but to then from Sarah's experience, the knowledge that I then had, I got to have a great conversation with my mom and she started crying before I even got to The part where we worked through her trimesters because she knew, she knew. And instantly she didn't question whether or not the statement was she couldn't forgive herself. She didn't even ask that question when she looked at me through tearful eyes. She looked at me and she said, why haven't I let that go? Right? And that is the power and the gift. That therapy, talk therapy, or any T therapy can provide through you. And the power and knowledge in that and so I thank you for all that you have given not only me but my family and all of those that are listening that are now going to do some digging to truly realize that. It's okay that you show up as you are, who you are, with the intent to do better. And I want to say better in the sense of you're, like you said, you're good already. You're good. And that's hard. That's hard. How can you feel from a therapist perspective as we kind of go back into the, how can we help others? How do you feel that therapy helps working moms, whether you're a stay at home mom and outside of the home mom, Feel better that they can show up at both home and work. How does therapy help somebody show up that way or better or their best self? Part of it is, is like when you step into therapy, at least in my therapy office, like that's just the way that I. Feel called to work with women is to help them become the best version of themselves. Okay. To help them understand, um, who they are at their worst and at their best, like, and Even more so, like what goals could they achieve when they really, truly know their gifts, abilities, Like what they're capable of, right? When they know their power, when they know why they were designed and what, for what purpose, like I would love for all women to be able to understand who they are. And what their purpose is on this earth, because we all have one and we're all trying to achieve these things. And we're all like moving towards, you know, depending on your belief system, at least where I come from. What I believe is like, I'm going to be doing this journey. I'm going to be doing my work until Jesus comes back. Cause I ain't never going to be perfect this side of heaven. It's just not going to happen. I am always a work in progress. I'm always doing my work and kind of checking. Um, how can I be? How can I be better? Because there is something in me that is not doing so good. And I'll see those kinds of things flare up. So why therapy is helpful, I think is. For all women to come to know themselves truly, to be able to see what's blocking them from taking their next steps and becoming the person they want to be. Whether that's a better wife, a better business owner, a better employee, a better stay at home mom, a better homeschooling mom, whatever, whatever you want to do. We all have blocks. Whether we don't forgive ourselves, whether we don't believe we're good enough, um, whether we think we just don't matter, like we all have stuff, garbage. And as you even mentioned in your story, thank you just for being so vulnerable and sharing those things. Um, like we carry things that aren't even ours and we don't even know it. Like generational things. Hello, epigenetics. Like we have DNA that gets passed from our lovely parents and they got stuff passed from their lovely parents. And it just keeps going. And so sometimes we get handed a ball of stuff that we're like, what do I do with all of this? You know, is this mine? Is this like, has this been something that generationally, like we just keep passing down? You know, and can I be a cycle breaker? I love that. Can I release this stuff and not let any other woman or lineage beyond me keep believing this lie? Can we just be free from this to be our best self? Man, if there's ever a reason to do it, that is. Right. And then you go into the thought process of, okay, sometimes we as women think I don't have enough time. I don't have time to go do therapy. It's not in the budget right now. I would encourage you to look into insurance to see what your insurance might cover in regards to therapy, but Personally, like firsthand, it doesn't even matter if insurance for me is part of the game because now I understand the benefits. But for those who might have to put this into the back burner for a while or onto the back burner for a while, what advice or tips or trick, just a couple. Would you give to working moms to be able to better manage the mom guilt or the train of thought that we sometimes feel? For sure. And so again, depending on what your block is or where that train of thought is going, there are. Numerous amounts of books. Okay. If you even go to my website, I even have a list of resources of even just basic places to start. You know, one of my favorite books is the best of you, Dr. Allison Cook. Like there's been so many books that have come along my path at just the right time. And so oftentimes it's like when you keep hearing resources shared by your friends, oh, have you read this book? Have you read this book? And you're like, oh my gosh, I've heard that name like three times. It might be a sign, you know, it might be a little nudging from the spirit to be like, go pick up the book. It may be what you need. I'm going to tell you that a lot of my journey was on my own. Okay. There were times that I stepped in with a therapist for the things that I just had no idea what to do, whether I needed, I, you know, I've done EMDR. If you've heard of that trauma tool, A lot of my, uh, stuff came through any T, but it was a chiropractor. It wasn't even a therapist. You know what I'm saying? So a lot of my journey has been talking, hearing podcasts like this. Reading books on my own talking with friends and doing book clubs like you can still do therapeutic work. Right outside of the therapist office, if you cannot afford it, you know, I would love to be able to have workshops and different offer low cost options. Right. Um, I'm just new here, so we're still trying to figure some of that stuff out. But to be able to have, you know, groups or clubs or, you know, workshops where on a larger scale, you can still learn about these things and take them to heart, do your own study, you know. So that's kind of my, that would be where I would start if you cannot afford or. And again, I'm just going to tell you ain't nobody got time. You will make time. If you are intentional with it, you will make time. Um, I make time for massages. Like I budget for those things. Like that is a necessity for me. Like, You make time to go to target. You make time to do a lot of different things. Let me just say, so all I'm saying is that we can come up with a lot of excuses. Okay. I'm not saying that you need to all be in therapy because not everybody, like, is therapy beneficial for everybody? Yes. But you will be able to determine when it's time for your season if you need to step into therapy. We will link to Sarah's website in the show notes so that you can find that book List of books to be able to find what might fit your season of life to then say, okay, I'm doing enough because oftentimes we feel like we have to do more, more, more, and we want to be able to tell you that you're doing enough and. Sarah continues to manage that thought process in her head. So she's had her therapist hat on and has done a great job of Bringing real life examples for her own self into that. And now we're going to put on the mom hat. And she mentioned that she has three boys. Wow. Wow. Did you kind of reference all of the titles that you wore as a working mom and now for sure, as the kids are in school, you are working outside of the home. Do you feel like you've found your fit? Did you feel like? There was a fit in each season. As you reflect back, did you always know that you would end up here as a working mom? I think that was always the plan, um, because I love working. I love being around people. Um, I am introverted yet also extroverted. I'm an ambivert. Um, and so I, I don't like being in the home all the time. Um, I knew for a season that like I worked and I had kids in daycare and things like that. And I missed a lot of milestones and I was like, I can't do this anymore. And so I came home and spent about ten years with my boys as they were Kind of in those, um, infancy preschool years, um, until. Um, the last one went to preschool, um, or to kindergarten. And then I had been doing my master's work along the way so that when I knew that when he went to kindergarten, I would have more flexibility to go back and start working. Um, so. It is, I always knew that I was going to do something. I just didn't know what it was going to be. So that answers your question. Yeah. It also brought up, I don't know if I've ever heard the term Amber vert Amber vert. Yeah. 70% of us are ambiverts. There's 15% that are so introverted and 15% that are like extroverted and everybody else is kind of, it's like a spectrum or somewhere on that line in the middle. So that's awesome. More on the introverted side. Okay, cool. Now, as you reflect into your home, And you, we all consider the way in which we were raised, both good and not so great. You knew that there were things that you wanted to implement as a mom. What were some of those things? Ooh. That's good. Um, I always loved family dinners. Quality time person. When you're talking love languages, it's quality time. Um, and so being able to take vacations, we honestly never really got to take vacations as a kid because we were, I mean, we'd go to St. Louis if we were lucky. Go to the arts. I mean, it was just my parents and where they were at. We just couldn't do it. You know, um, we. Anywho, so I always wanted to take vacations. I knew I wanted to implement those kinds of things and just any kind of quality time. Um, like just having the saying goodnight to them every night, like anything that I could do. Cause my mom was a working mom. And we, we went to daycares and we were, we were home by ourselves. And so I just didn't even know what it was like to always have a mom around, you know? Um, so. I was grateful for that, for that, um, for her to show me that it's okay to do whatever it is you need. There was a season actually, she had lost her job, so she was staying home with us. Um, and that was really sweet too. You know, she was able to do stuff with us in the summertime and it was awesome. Um, and so I think I just wanted to be the best version for my kids. No matter what that, that meant, you know, um, but quality time, I think always comes back to, I just wanted to be there for them. And I, um, I wanted to hand them, um, love and, you know, am I perfect at that? There's a lot of things I feel like I'm handing down to them that I did not intend to. Um, but again, that's still my work. So, but you know what I have learned is the word I'm sorry. And that covers up a multitude of things that if I can come to my kids after we've had a rough go and be able to own my part, I was not able to do that before I started my whole journey of understanding me. Um, I was very prideful and it was always everybody else's fault and I expected everybody to come and sue me and that was. I mean, I love my mom. It's what she had always modeled. There was never, I don't remember often any time really anybody saying that they were sorry in my house. Um, growing up, it was always everybody else's fault. And so I wanted to model this. We're going to do something different because I have to take ownership and I need to, and I actually want to model that. Thank you for sharing. Sometimes I wonder my intent when I say I'm sorry to the kids. I don't have a problem of saying that and then doing it, but man, If their hugs when they say it's okay doesn't soothe my heart and just feel that, am I doing good enough? So again, maybe a little selfish intent. My biggest thing, and I would love to work on this, so add it to the list, right? I, my mom was a, or still is, right? She's a reaction of like the, that, right? And I do it. I find myself doing it. And then my thing is, And I copied this directly from her. The sigh. The heavy breath to a point where I now find myself if the kids do it or my husband does it, I instantly say what's wrong. Instantly. And so I asked Sydney, who is eight right now, I said, Sydney, will you please point out When I do that to you and not to put pressure on her, but to almost give her permission and saying, hey, mom, you're doing that and I don't like it because she doesn't. She doesn't like it. And so from time to time, it's got a lot better. She'll check me on it. And I want to give her that power to be able to know that it doesn't have to be that way, that it is okay. And honestly, for me to be like. Man, it's, it's this, it's this in my environment that I do it. And so not too long ago I asked, I was like, hey, The heavy breath thing. You haven't said anything about it in a while. Is it because I'm doing it so often that you're used to it or have you not noticed it? And she sat there and she very emotionally mature for her age, much further along than I was at that time. Well, mom. I think that's something that you're doing a lot better in. Again, that Enneagram three external validation from an eight year old still does great. Still does great. Like you said, looking at the areas of opportunity that we all have owning them and then talking about it is huge, right? Would you say that that is probably one area that you struggle with feeling that mom guilt or do you feel it from time to time and you're able to snap yourself out of it a little sooner or quicker? I think we're all a work in progress. And so if I'm, you know, being honest, like I'm not, I'm not great at owning all my stuff or even like I I'm better at it now, like probably after them, I'm like, oh, I did it again, you know? And so again, when I get to those moments, I am quicker to go and apologize and have that conversation. But I don't, I don't really allow myself to let it go anymore because I think that's where the mom guilt would really, like, I should be doing something and I'm not. Does that make sense? Yeah. If I didn't follow through and do the follow up work, um, that's, I think where, gosh, I'm a horrible mom. I'm not doing a good job. But I think the more that I'm becoming aware and then stepping into doing the things that I want to do, how I want to show up. Even if I'm not perfect at it, um, like my boys will, will have a better communication relationship. You know, they're more willing to talk to me in particular teenagers now. So that's hard enough as it is. Um. But it actually teaches them. They will then come and apologize to me. Like I'm finding my youngest doing this on his own, you know, and it's like, okay, sometimes we're still the, we're still having to kind of. Motivate them at some point, you know, you need to apologize, but the more that they can grow and knowing that that's just the culture they live in or the home that they live in. I want that so deeply not to take ownership for everything. No, no, no. It's to take ownership for their part. You know what I'm saying? What a distinct and key difference to identify in those moments. So I love that you pointed that out. When you think about a question that just came to mind listening to you talk through that, Do you think that as you were able to see working moms from an external perspective where sometimes we get so much in our heads, do you think that oftentimes We are harder on ourselves than we really need to be or need to be. Yes. And I think to some level this has to do with gender roles. And what we've been expected to be as women and if we've been trained that the women take care of the children and do all the things and that you know that it's not again this is just where. I'm speaking, everybody has their own belief system, but I think a lot of times if we end up deciding to work outside the home or need to like. It's not an option for me just to not work. I, I, we need to bring in money. We have three boys that we're about to buy cars for and send to college. Like this is not an option anymore. And I love to, but. Um, but I, I'm trying to get back into the question here. Um, but I think we do place a lot of pressure, undue pressure, unneeded pressure on ourselves to To do all the things where it's okay to ask for help around the house or to share more chores or share more like if dad can. Do carpool today. That would be great. You know, it's like learning. We, we both made these children and we both can parent them and we can both be responsible for it. Where I'm not the only one who can show up to, you know, a lunch at school or a party or run you here or run you there or help you with homework at night. I get to be the whole of who I am too. And if I like my sole purpose, again, how I talk about this with clients is that You know, if you think about a center, like a wheel, okay, and the spoke, you know, we have spokes on the wheel it's like that old wagon wheel kind of thing, and the center itself right like that's who I am, you know, and then all the spokes are all the different roles that I play. Okay, in life, whether that role is a wife, whether that role is a mom, whether it's a friend, a sister, a daughter, um, you know. Taxi driver, whatever, like we have all these different roles. And so when any particular spoke gets, you know, too much attention, it just Does that make sense? It kind of gets out of balance. Okay. It's a role that we play. And if I, I have lots of them to play. So I am a mom, yet I'm also a business owner and I need to work. You know, and I have expectations. My boss is expecting it. I am the boss, but my boss is expecting me to come. You know, my clients are expecting me. There are things that we just have to do now. It's still our job to make sure those roles are balanced. You know, if I'm working too hard and avoiding family, we're not being there. If I'm doing too much family and not doing enough work, if I'm, you know, leaving my husband out, if I'm leaving my friends out, it is the, it's a constant game of trying to balance life. But that's what we get to do. But shaming ourselves for like when I'm in work mode that I'm not doing mom mode, like how does that help us? It doesn't really. We have to be okay with if I'm going to be called to do this. That I'm going to be present. My yes is yes. Right. I'm going to be all in with wherever I'm present. So that's why I have really good boundaries. My do not disturb is on right now. And yet somehow my son is texting me and I'm like, no, I'm going to get back to you in just a minute. I'm doing a podcast. I'm working. And they know that, but they also know when I come home, I'm not talking to my clients. I'm present where I'm at so that I can be fully present. Then I don't feel the mom guilt later. And everybody kind of knows the expectations, healthy boundaries, right? Does that make some sense? The best way to wrap up this conversation so well done I i'm present where i'm at is a thought that I can't wait to start keeping in mind more so some quick thoughts that come to mind as to how do I, how can I. Control me in that because like you said, that's the only true control I have anything over is of me. You know, I'm going to go put my phone in a different room between five p.m. and eight p.m. I then get to give myself the gift and our family of being present where I'm at. So what a, what a beautiful way to wrap that up. Sarah, I know people are going to want to connect with you. Your capacity. Is so very high, so how can people learn more about NET therapy as a whole, that book list, and really learn about you, and if they're not able to work with you, you know, tips and Tricks and tools for you to help them find their fit. Where can they go for more information? Right. I mean, you can always go to my website. It's really not that high involved. I would love to have more curriculum for you guys to be able just to purchase on your own. Um, you know, that again, work in progress. I would love to dreaming big. You're giving me great ideas of things of remembering like who's out there and how can they get, you know, to work on stuff like this. Again, that resource list of books, there can be workbooks on there of kind of finding what, what speaks to you in your situation. And a lot of times, you know, work can flow from that. Um, Yeah, I wish I had more opportunities right now, but we're so fresh in Quincy. Um, right now my schedule is pretty full, um, but it doesn't mean I'm not open and, you know, in the future months to come because I don't even, I can't remember when you tell me when this is going to launch. So, Um, life could be totally different. I might be like, I need clients, please come see me. Um, but I think just stay tuned, you know, you can always follow us on Facebook. I don't, I would love to update it more than I usually do, but again, There's only so many hours in the day and I'm not going to have mom guilt or I'm actually not going to have therapist guilt sometimes because I think it goes hand in hand that I'm not doing enough work wise. I'm doing what I feel called to do. And so I will try to update stuff like that. Um, You know, that's, I think that's about all I have. You can, again, go look online. Some of that NET stuff is linked on our website. You can go learn more. Yeah. And if you have ideas of how I can help you message me, like if you can produce this, this would be great. You know, I'm always open to ideas. I don't think I've ever told anybody that like. Message me with something that you might like to see in the community if you want a workshop or if you want any kind of other thing other than therapy. Like, give me some ideas, people. It would be great. I love it. That's deeperrootscounselingmft.com. I love it. Sarah, thank you so much for your time. We so appreciate you pouring into working moms. If by chance any of this information is exactly what you needed to hear, thank you for being here. Feel free to share it with someone who you might think Needs to hear it or you want to share that with them, but do so in a kind way, right? We want to make sure that we're lifting others up to empower them to release that hold that so much so many of us have mom guilt around. And truly thrive in our careers and raise good kids. What, what a pleasure. So thank you for being here. We would love for you to get involved. There is a way for you to join our Working Moms Redefined community and be sure to check out our show notes to get signed up for our email. Thank you for listening to today's Working Moms Redefined podcast episode. We would love to connect with you beyond. Check out the show notes for our socials, workingmomsredefined.com, and any templates that we may have mentioned in today's episode. It is my absolute pleasure to get to live life with you. And if you think someone would benefit from today's message, please share that with them so we can connect and help them in this next season of life. We learn best from one another and when we join in community and we are so honored that you've chosen to spend some time with us to thrive in your career and raise great kids. Thank you.
